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TWPT:
Everyone
has some memories as to when they first felt the call
of Wicca or Paganism in their lives, when was it that
you began to realize that this path might be the one
for you?
DS:
I like to tell people that Mercedes
Lackey made me a Pagan, though that isn't the whole
story. The whole story is more like this: I grew
up in a small Southern town in a Baptist household,
and though we went to church regularly, I never felt
the least bit spiritual.
The older I got, the less and less I cared about
any of it; I was far more interested in fantasy novels
and vampires.
About the time I turned sixteen, my parents sent
me to a retreat weekend hoping it would put the church
back in me. It was the kind of weekend where they
take away your wristwatch and won't let you use the
phone. One of my best friends went along too.
She's a missionary in the Czech Republic now,
and I'm a Wiccan priestess.
Strange how things work out.
I left that weekend feeling betrayed, but more importantly,
I felt abandoned. Everyone there was "getting
the spirit" and breaking down in tears, holding
each other's hands to pray and singing their hearts
out. I was empty. I couldn't understand
what a sixteen year old could have done to make God
ignore her. All I wanted to do was go outside
and climb a tree, and I couldn't even do that; I had
to sit in the pews and pretend that Jesus had called
me too, and all the while I was wishing for...I don’t
know what. Or I didn't at the time.
Meanwhile, I had joined the Mercedes Lackey fan club.
This was back before the Internet, so I had a
lot of pen pals--on actual paper, not email. It
was the good old days. One of those pen pals called
herself a Witch, and I was pretty sure she was either
crazy or trying to freak people out. I asked her
what she meant, and she told me a little about this
nature religion, about a Goddess and a God and a world
where magic was more than just daydreams and novels,
but something real that could change the world. She
also gave me a list of books, but I laughed at that--there
are no bookstores in my hometown, unless you count Wal-Mart.
TWPT:
Do you think that it is a natural tendency of
those who follow this path to enjoy the worlds created
by fantasy authors? Why is that?
DS: I think so, though there
are certainly Pagans who love all sorts of literature.
I think the thing that draws us to fantasy is
that we know in our hearts that magic is real, that
the things we've dreamed and read about can happen,
but our whole lives we're told the opposite. Most
people have a very mundane upbringing--even devout Christians
are told that God and saints, not average humans, can
do miracles. We don't want to believe in a world
without magic, so we seek refuge in fantasy novels where
the rules we grew up with don't apply. Then some
of us go on to find out that while there may not be
talking horses and wizard schools, a lot of the magic
we sensed in the world really does exist.
TWPT:
Was there a pivotal moment when you stepped off
of the path that you had been following and began your
journey on your current path?
DS: That
Fall I went to the Texas Renaissance Festival. They
have a booth every year that sells books, mostly metaphysical
titles. There, on the shelf, was Scott Cunningham's
Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner. I
had exactly enough money left to buy it. I stuck
it in my bag and walked around the rest of the day feeling
like a strange hybrid of fugitive and Queen of the World.
It only took one reading--by flashlight, at night,
under the covers--and the Goddess had me, no turning
back.
TWPT:
Was there any resistance that you remember from
family or friends to this new choice in the direction
your life was going to proceed?
DS: Almost no one in my family
knows I'm a Pagan. Being out of the broom closet
isn't that important to me, to be honest. I'm
in the process of telling them individually. My
brother thinks I'm kooky and probably going through
a phase--of course, he doesn't know about the book yet.
My missionary friend is adjusting to the idea;
we've had some good discussions and will probably have
a lot more. She's one of the few true Christians
I know, living a life in the love of her God rather
than the love of commercial religion.
TWPT:
Were there any Wiccan/Pagan books that made a
particularly strong impression on you back then?
DS: Of course there was the aforementioned
Cunningham. I remember how devastated I was when
I found out he died the year before I became Wiccan--I
wanted so much to meet him one day. Later
there was also The Spiral Dance, but for the first two
years I only had the one book. No tools, just
me and the gods. I'm thankful for that, actually,
because I had a chance to figure out what I believed
and what the sacred meant in my life without a lot of
conflicting opinions. Sixteen is a very impressionable,
and generally dumb, age.
TWPT:
Fast forward to 2003 and the plethora of book
titles that we currently have available that cover just
about everything in the Wiccan/Pagan world, how is it
that someone new to this path goes about finding the
book or books that will help them best understand their
growing spirituality?
DS: I wonder that myself, seeing
some of what's out there. It takes the ability
to read critically both with your mind and your heart,
and unfortunately a lot of young people in particular
haven't had time to develop that--or, they don't realize
that not every author knows what she's talking about
and that some people are just out to make a buck. I
would never have believed that at sixteen. I was
lucky. One advantage people have now, though,
is the Internet--while there's a lot of conflicting
information, there are plenty of people who agree in
their "Must Read Booklists" so you can say
to yourself, "Well, all ten of these sites liked
Cunningham, so he's probably a safe bet."
You also have to listen to your Inner Crap Detector--if
something sounds unethical or otherwise questionable,
don't immediately think you're the one that's wrong.
Do more research, find places online where people
will answer your questions without treating you like
an idiot, and trust the inner guidance of the Gods.
That's the best advice I can give, really.
TWPT:
When was it that your own writing began to bloom?
Was this something that has always been with you or
is this a recent development in your life?
DS: I've been writing since I
could read. I started creating stories before
I was even in kindergarten. Writing is the one
thing I have always known I could excel at. It's
my calling. I would write no matter what religion
I was or what kind of life I led. My first love
is fiction, but I realized that this gift the Goddess
and God had given me could help other people find Their
grace, so novels can wait. I have other work to
do.
TWPT:
What were your first impressions of the Wiccan/Pagan
community once you began to acclimate yourself to your
new path? Did you get out into the community and get
to meet some of the members who walked the same path
as you?
DS: I didn't meet a single Pagan
in real life until I was eighteen and moved to Austin
for college. My impressions were...mixed. I
met some amazing people, and some total flakes. The
first Witch I met thought she was a cat spirit in a
human body, and spent an hour in the corner licking
herself. I'm not kidding. I met her again
five years later and she seems to have grown out of
that, or learned to groom at home. Maybe someone
bought her a lint roller.
The Community is a strange thing to me. On
the one hand I have found the most influential and spiritual
people I've ever known, and on the other hand I've had
experiences that should have turned me off to the whole
idea, if not to the whole human race. I had to
come to understand that the Pagan Community is made
up of human beings--clay-footed, strange, regular people
just like me who find their way here through all sorts
of channels. We have the same proportion of idiots
and jerks as any other subculture, but our idiots and
jerks wear black velvet cloaks in high Summer and call
themselves CrystalWind SparklePony.
TWPT:
When was it that the idea came to you to write
about your Wiccan spirituality? Did you see a need that
you might speak to with your words within the community?
DS: The longer I was in the Community,
the more distressed I became with what I call "Festival
Paganism," where people are only Wiccan or whatever
eight times a year and then the robe goes back in the
closet. There were a lot of people genuinely looking
for Deity, but after the 101 level books on Wicca you
have to forge your own path, and that can be overwhelming.
Wiccans don’t have a roadmap--there isn't anyone
to tell us what to do to grow spiritually, and even
in a coven situation the majority of your practice is
at home, just you and your altar. We don't want
to be babied or led by the hand, but we also need guideposts,
suggestions. That was what I wanted to give people:
tools to build their own practice. Maybe
a little inspiration.
TWPT:
So as a writer you are sort of a teacher/guide
to those who buy your books. What kind of responsibility
does that carry in your mind?
DS: It carries a huge responsibility,
one I wish more authors would remember. A lot
of writers are careless with their words, not realizing
somewhere out there a newcomer will take what they said
as gospel. It's hard for most seekers to realize
(and some authors to admit) that we're just as human
as anyone else, that we have bad hair days and lose
our car keys and accidentally set things on fire during
rituals just like everyone else does. Sometimes
I feel I'm at a disadvantage being younger than your
average Pagan author, since anyone under 30 automatically
seems to get the "just a kid" treatment. People
are always surprised when they meet me and find out
I'm not older than I am.
TWPT:
Tell me about the process that you go through
when you first sit down with the seed of an idea that
you would like to develop into a full fledged book.
DS: Well, considering this is
the first time I've done it, I don't really have a process
yet. The way it worked was, I had the idea,
but it stayed on the back burner for months; I am the
Queen of Procrastinators.
Then I had this really ridiculous dream involving
Spider, essentially telling me now was the time and
that I was officially being nagged by a Higher Power.
I always know there's trouble brewing when Spider
appears in my life--she means business. After
that, though, all the problems I was having with focus
and discipline fell away, and I wrote the entire thing
in three months. As cheesy as it will probably
sound, the whole thing was like a long continuous Drawing
Down; I don't remember much of it, and to this day sometimes
I read passages from the book and wonder, "Did
I write that?" I just hope Spider doesn't
decide to sue for copyright one of these days.
TWPT:
Could you explain Spider and what this represents
to you?
DS: Spider is what you might
call my spirit nag. She isn't a totem for me as
such, since she only appears at very specific times--when
there's something I should be writing. Spiders
have in some traditions been seen as the recordkeepers,
who created the alphabet and who weave the history of
the universe in their webs. Spider is also one
of the sacred creatures of my particular Goddess, who
is Herself a Weaver. I don't go to Spider in meditation
or anything like that; she brings me messages and then
goes her merry way...or sticks around until I get the
point. I'll see web images and actual spiders
everywhere for months until I realize what she expects
of me. I talk more about her influence in the
preface of The Circle Within.
TWPT:
Do you think that a lot of the current book titles
that are available to the Pagan community could be characterized
as introductory books? Are there reasons why this might
not be such a good thing?
DS: I think a good seventy percent
of the titles out right now could be called introductory.
Many barely even skim the surface. There
are so many new seekers every year, and so few groups
and teachers available compared to that number, that
people have to turn to books to get the basics. That
means that introductory level books sell very well,
and publishing companies are just that--companies. In
order to sell the intermediate and advanced titles (what
few there are) they have to stay afloat financially,
so it makes sense to me that there has been a glut of
101-level books for the past few years. Now, though,
those of us who came to Paganism in the 90's are maturing
past that level, so there is a new and widening market
for more advanced books. Publishers are just now
starting to respond to that demand, but if the trend
continues I think the 101 craze will fade out eventually.
TWPT:
Your new book The Circle Within is described as
not being a book on beginning Wicca. As you were writing
this book was having it aimed at an intermediate level
of practitioner a conscious decision on your part?
DS: It was definitely a conscious
decision. I had no interest in rehashing the same
old beginning information; there are plenty of places
to find that in print and on the Internet. My
interest is in those who have already learned the vocabulary
words, and who want to deepen their spirituality but
aren’t sure how to go about it.
TWPT:
When considering the content of a work in progress
what is it that makes something beginner level or intermediate
or advanced material? Do you use your own experiences
as a measuring stick for whether the information you
are imparting is beginner or intermediate?
DS: I use my own experience and
that of the people I know. Sometimes I think if
I see one more correspondence table I’ll go stark raving
mad. To me, beginner level books all seem to have
certain things in common: charts of Elemental
associations, glossaries and pictures of ritual tools,
and endless lists of what Deity “goes with” what magical
operation. A lot of them use what I call “plug
and play mythology,” where you pick a god or goddess
to invoke entirely based on what you want out of the
ritual, not out of a deeper spiritual connection with
that deity. That upsets me--whether you view them
as archetypes or discrete individuals, the gods are
not magical tools.
Beginner books also almost always have the obligatory
Love Spell Rant--never do love spells on specific people,
yadda yadda yadda.
The ethics in such books are usually very cut and
dried, without a lot of philosophical exploration. Deity
gets maybe one chapter out of the whole book, usually
after the “History of Wicca” (don’t get me started on
that) and right before the chapter on Tools. They’re
all very cookie-cutter these days.
An advanced book, in my mind, asks more questions
than it answers.
It makes you think, makes you reconsider what you
learned in the 101 books. What makes spiritual
sense to you? Why do you do things the way you
do? How could you do them better, to get more
out of them?
How can the practices you’ve learned, or new ones,
enrich your relationship with Deity?
TWPT:
Could you give our readers some idea as to what
they can expect from your book The Circle Within.
DS: The Circle Within is a small
book, but I think it gives a lot of food for thought.
It discusses how to create a daily, meaningful
spiritual practice that will bring you closer to your
gods, Whoever They might be. It’s not aimed at
a particular tradition or pantheon, but at anyone looking
to grow spiritually. It’s not for those who want
to be spoon-fed religion. I hope it will challenge
people at least a little bit. The second section
of the book is a sort of Book of Shadows, samples of
prayers and rituals to spark people’s imaginations.
I wanted readers to see that a devotional practice
doesn’t have to involve prostration and humiliation,
but can be built of joy and reverence. Wicca is
a joyful religion, or at least it should be.
TWPT:
Do you think that enough of the material that
has come out in the last few years has focused sufficiently
on the spirituality of Wicca?
DS: Absolutely not. Spells
and bells are easier--not only do they sell well, but
they are simpler to write about. It takes a certain
balance of pragmatism and poetry to speak effectively
about Deity; you have to be able to communicate the
experience of religious passion without sounding like
a total zealot. I don’t know if I accomplish that,
but it was my goal. Even those who write about
spirituality often sound like they’re talking about
Uncle Pan and Aunt Freya, rather than the awesome beauty
and radiance I have felt in Circle. Granted, there
are notable exceptions. The Spiral Dance still
stands out as an inspirational work in that regard;
Phyllis Curott’s work is also wonderful. Those
are two of a handful of authors still writing that have
been my greatest influences.
TWPT:
Why is it important to be more than a "Sabbat
only Wiccan"?
DS: For the same reason it’s
important not to be a fair-weather friend.
You will only get out of a relationship what you
put into it; it stands to reason that, in order to experience
the full spectrum of Divine love and grace, you have
to work at it, be present. Many of us were raised
going to church once a week--a few had prayers at mealtimes,
but rarely more than that. My upbringing was religious:
we did things with the church. It wasn’t spiritual.
I had no personal relationship with God. No
one ever told me that was possible. Once you have
sown that relationship, however, you have to water and
feed and care for it or it will never thrive.
TWPT:
Your book also takes a look at ethics and standards
of behavior. With such an eclectic group like we have
within our community how in the world does anyone figure
out just what is acceptable or not?
DS: I can’t speak for the entire
Pagan community; Wiccans have the Rede, which is a good
start, but it only gives you a goal to work toward,
not a lot in the way of practical advice. In The
Circle Within I discuss a concept I call “The Wiccan
Graces.” These are concepts that the individual chooses
as his or her own spiritual and ethical ideals: things
like compassion, integrity, even humor. These
Graces can then be applied to everyday life: what
did I do today that showed the world my integrity? How
can I best embody the Goddess and God through my ideals?
No two people will have exactly the same Graces;
compassion might not be as important to you as, say,
strength. The important thing is to remember that,
as we enact these ideals, we are acting as the Earthly
manifestations of Deity. I do think that people
have an inherent sense of right and wrong; they may
choose to ignore it, as is our right as free-thinking
human beings.
Wiccans view the universe as Goddess and God incarnate;
we should, then, have high standards for our own behavior.
We are a religion of clergy, not blind followers,
and deep down we know how to act accordingly.
We’ll all screw up, of course. That’s the beauty
of Wicca--this isn’t our only shot, and there isn’t
a final judgment waiting to tally up all our wrongs
against us. We have many chances to set things
right, and every day we get 24 new hours to be a positive
force in the world. We do the best with what we
know and try to do better every day. Wicca operates
from a basic belief in the decency of people, as well
as our ability to learn and evolve.
TWPT:
You mentioned in an earlier question that you
were relatively young for a Wiccan author, do you think
that this might work to your advantage in the sense
that you are approaching the subject with a new perspective?
DS: As big a challenge as my
age can be, it’s also a great asset. A lot of
the older folk in the community are very Traditionalist
and can occasionally be close-minded. Some are
overtly threatened by anyone who comes along trying
to shake things up. I love being part of a religion
that’s still evolving; Wicca is young and still unsteady
on its feet, and everyone has the opportunity to help
shape its future.
Coming at it with youth and idealism on my side I
feel I can really have an effect on my religion, and
that’s at once humbling and wonderful. I’ve seen
how it can backfire; my coven sister and dear friend
published a book that has been ripped up one side and
down the other by a lot of Traditionalists, even to
the point that her personal life has been attacked online
by adults who should know better. There is a lot
of fear in the community of what is in my mind inevitable:
the religion that Gardner helped create can’t
stay the same forever.
The secrecy is over--for better or for worse, Wicca
has passed into American hands, and there’s no going
back. I think the older generation is such a valuable
resource and has so much to offer all of us here on
the “frontier” that it saddens me to see many older
folk (by older I mean people who have been practicing
for decades, not just people of a particular age) throw
their hands up in disgust rather than helping make sure
the past remains a vital part of the future. They
can say that only coven-trained lineaged Gardnerians
are real Wiccans, and maybe that's true, but they’re
fighting a losing battle. That which does not
grow and change will stagnate and eventually die. I
would rather help create something that I know will
help people live better and more fulfilling lives than
sit on the sidelines wishing things were still like
they used to be. But then, what do I know? I've
only been Wiccan for ten years. *laugh*
TWPT:
You mentioned in a previous answer that there
were always going to be more students than teachers
because of the large influx of new people following
this path, what kind of advice would you offer for those
who get most of their information out of the books that
are found at their local libraries or the few titles
that they can afford to buy?
DS: I always say there are three
important parts of learning Wicca: study, experience,
and common sense. First of all, read everything
you can get your hands on--but more importantly, read
critically. As I said, there are a few authors
that are pretty well recommended by most of the websites
out there--and if you get one book you like, it will
most likely have a bibliography or reading list at the
back that can be helpful. Second, just reading
isn't enough; you have to do the exercises, do the rituals,
meditate. Establish some kind of regular practice;
even ten minutes a day can change your life. Books
are nothing but paper and ink; their power lies in what
you do with the words.
Third, don't check your brain at the door. Just
as in any religion there will always be people who want
to exploit your belief--just because someone says he's
a Wiccan doesn't mean he is. There's no central
regulating agency that issues Wicca licenses. If
people or ideas make you uncomfortable, that's your
subconscious warning you about something. Maybe
it's just prior conditioning you have to grow past,
but then again maybe not. Don’t rush into joining
a coven just because you think you can’t be a Witch
alone--study on your own for a while, or find a study
group that doesn’t ask for an initiatory commitment.
Also, don’t become a Wiccan just because you aren’t
a Christian. If you’ve been called away from the
faith of your birth, do some exploring before choosing
a new one and decide for yourself if Wicca is right
for you, and you’re right for it. God reveals
him/herself to everyone differently. Now, if the
Goddess comes to you and says "Okay, you’re Mine
now, break out the candles and incense and let’s go,"
that narrows your choices a little.
TWPT:
What are your thoughts on the whole process of
taking your ideas from conception to finished book on
a shelf? Are there things that you might do differently
for the 2nd or 3rd books that you write?
DS: My writing process is very
loose and free. I stew over an idea for months
sometimes before putting a single word on paper. Then
I outline very haphazardly, decide what each chapter
will deal with, and just start writing. I revise
as I go, so that the first "draft" is really
the only draft until an editor has a go at it. The
publishing process is really fascinating to me; I had
no idea how any of it worked, or why it takes so long
to get a book on the shelf.
Now it makes sense. I don’t know any other
way to write, though—my way involves a lot of late nights
and aching fingers. The first book was finished
before anyone saw it, so I’ve never written a book under
contract; that would probably be a different story.
More late nights, more caffeine.
TWPT:
What are your thoughts of taking your ideas on
the road and teaching to live audiences at festivals
or conferences? Is that something that you can see yourself
doing in a few years?
DS: I have a mortal dread of
public speaking, but that’s slowly, slowly changing.
I became a writer in part because I couldn’t express
myself verbally, so suddenly having to do book signings
and so forth has been hard for me. Now, though,
a friend--the coven sister I mentioned earlier--and
I are starting an organization here in Austin to teach
and provide further study and fellowship for people
who don’t want to join covens, so I’m having to take
a more active role as a priestess than ever before.
I’ve always been painfully shy, but I knew deep
down from the beginning that I was going to have to
get over myself in order to fulfill the role the Lord
and Lady have set before me. So I can see myself
doing a lot of that sort of thing in a few years--I
can also see myself freaking out and hiding under the
furniture, but that will change as I gain more confidence
in myself. It’s still really hard to believe that when
people come to these events they’re actually there to
hear me talk.
TWPT:
You talk about the change that is happening to
Wicca being inevitable so what kind of suggestions do
you have for how the current elders of this community
might bridge the gap between those who will be the next
generation of Wiccans and themselves?
DS: Since Wiccans don’t have
Scripture, we have three major sources of learning:
how-to books, experience, and elders. Community
elders are so vital both to share knowledge and to give
us a sense of history, even if that history is no more
than fifty years. We all want to feel connected
to something greater, otherwise we would have no community
at all, and it’s of utmost importance that those who
have been around more than five or ten years be willing
to share their knowledge with the younger generation.
That doesn’t have to mean teaching classes or
taking students. It could just be teaching by
example, showing the younger folk what it really means
to live your life as a Wiccan, and above all to walk
the talk. There are many, many elders who do this
already--I’m not in any way saying that everyone out
there is some narrow-minded FundamentaPagan. The
trend, however, seems to be that elders disappear from
the community because there are so many flakes and idiots,
but that leaves the true seekers, those who would one
day be elders themselves, with very little guidance.
I would say to the elders, don’t give up on the
community. Don’t give up on the young. If
only one in every ten new Wiccans turns out to be serious,
isn’t that one worth the effort of offering a friendly
hand?
TWPT:
Have you gotten any feedback from the community
about your book The Circle Within or is it still a little
too soon for that? What's the consensus so far?
DS: I get at least two emails
a week right now telling me the book has influenced
someone’s practice, or that they were so glad to finally
see this kind of work on the shelves. They say
the most wonderful things. I was so nervous before
the book went into print; it’s kind of that sending-your-child-off-to-kindergarten
feeling, where you’ve worked so hard to raise and nurture
someone or something and then the world gets its paws
on it and all bets are off. The feedback so far
has been absolutely postitive. It’s still very
soon, but I have two five-star reviews on Amazon.com
that sent my heart through the roof when I read them.
It’s being used in study groups and book discussions
already, which is amazing. Word of mouth is a
great thing.
TWPT:
Within the community where is it that you would
like to see some changes take place over the next few
years?
DS: I’d like to see Wicca taken
seriously by the greater religious community, but I’m
afraid that might be a long time coming. I’d also
like to see more community building--real community,
not just one night a month to get drunk together or
eight festivals that aren’t much better than clothing-optional
frat parties. Like it or not, every last one of
us is a representative of our religion; the minute someone
finds out I’m Wiccan they start forming an opinion of
us based on my behavior. That holds true for all
of us. We are the hands of the God and Goddess;
that means so much more than cool tools and spells and
taking off from work for Samhain. It means we
don’t practice our religion, we are our religion, from
dawn to dusk and from blood to bones.
TWPT: Are you
going to be promoting your book at a any bookstores
or events over the next few months? Do you have another
book in mind :at this point or are you going to wait
and see how this all works out with the current title
before moving along to the next?
DS: Right now I only have one
event planned at a Pagan store here in Austin, Natural
Magic. I think it’s December 6. I’m sure
Llewellyn will have other fun things for me to do in
the future. I’m a newcomer so it may be a while
before people have any idea who I am, but that doesn’t
bother me. I’m a lot more interested in people
reading the book and getting something out of it. The
idea of being a “Pagan Celebrity” terrifies me.
I did have another book idea in the works, but I
found out someone else is already writing it, so I’m
back to the drawing board. I will most likely
still use the idea in some form, but it needs to have
a bit of an overhaul. I think my next project,
aside from the class I’m co-teaching and the organization
I mentioned earlier, will be revamping my website and
creating new content for it. The next book will
come when it’s good and ready to be born, I suppose.
TWPT:
Any final thoughts that you might like to
share with our readers in regards to some of the key
points of your book?
DS: I can only hope that I’ve
managed to communicate to people the elegance and beauty
that I find in Wicca. To misquote Chesterton,
to me it’s less a religion and more of a love affair
of the soul. There is a depth and grace to Wicca
that isn’t obvious on the surface; the only way to find
it is to nurture your connection with Deity and let
Them lead you in the dance. They are the music,
and it’s up to us to find the steps that bring us closer
together.
TWPT:
Thanks so much for taking the time out to talk
to us. Even though this is only the beginning for you
I'm sure that we will be hearing more from you in the
coming years. Good luck.
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