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TWPT:
Could you give me some idea as to the effect that the internet has
had on the growth of the pagan community and how instrumental it has
been in spreading information about the movement worldwide?
DE: The inter net makes
Paganism available to everyone with computer access. If a
person is too timid or too frightened to go into a book store to
acquire materials on Paganism, they can browse countless web sites in
complete privacy. If a person feels that they are completely
alone in their Pagan beliefs, they can gain access to dozens of chat
rooms and converse to their heart's content about their
tradition. If a person is too frightened to network in person,
they can network over the inter net. The inter net makes information,
news, and situations available to Pagans in the blink of an eye.
I am more informed now about current events and how they affect
Pagans because of the inter net. I know more about what is
going with other Pagans than I knew ten years ago.
Furthermore, there are the marketing and sales aspects of the inter
net: you can buy STUFF! You can send Pagan-oriented
greeting cards. You can participate in on-line rituals with people
you have never met but with whom you have formed a close connection
through the inter net. I have done this, and the results of the
ritual were satisfying and concrete. Really, the list is almost
endless. Ten years ago, I would have viewed the notion of a
cyber-Pagan with disdain. Nowadays, I am one.
TWPT:
As an author what effect has the internet changed the way you
research material for upcoming projects?
DE: When I graduated from
law school in 1981 (The Dark Ages), the computer was just beginning
to make its appearance. I learned how to do research the old
fashioned way: in the law library with books. I know law
students who are graduating from law schools today who have no idea
how to Shepardize a case by hand as opposed to doing it on the
Westlaw inter net site or on the Lexis site. That is criminal,
actually. However, the inter net makes web sites available to
me so that I do not have to travel over land to law libraries.
I can stay up all night at home, hunched over the computer, doing
legal research at Westlaw.com or Lexis.com. Still, there is
nothing that compares to a BOOK, and I plan on checking all my
citations the old fashioned way: by hand in a law library.
As for non-legal research, such as history for my forthcoming trilogy
of ancient Egyptian novels, I have found that I really have to be
careful about information garnered from the inter net. A lot of
people don't have the foggiest notion of what they are talking
about. For example, I checked some information about Hatshepsut
which I obtained from a web site against my hard reference books
(published by the British Museum and the Cairo Museum) and found that
the inter net information was just bunk. So, you have to be
careful about research gained off the inter net.
I like checking news-related items which are Pagan pertinent through Witchvox.com
and Wren, who is a Media Goddess.
TWPT:
When was it that you decided to add writing to your repertoire and
how did you go about beginning the process of being an author? Was
the reality of being an author different than the idea that you
started with?
DE: This really was a
gradual process which began with writing community rituals to be
performed in St. Louis for events such as Magickal Weekend, the Open
Full Moon Ceremonies, and The Pagan Picnic. Then, during the
early 1990's, friends of mine began a really wonderful periodical
called GOODWITCH STORIES, which is now unfortunately no
longer in existence. I wrote some short stories and poetry for
them and was much encouraged by the response to these pieces.
Because I was becoming a Pagan civil rights advocate on the inter
net, I found myself doing exactly what I swore I would never do:
performing legal research for free, writing letters with legal
citations and viewpoints in them for congressmen, school boards, and
newspapers. So, my cache of legal-related writing just kept
getting bigger and bigger. Finally, my friend Chere Belknap
told me that I should write a book about Paganism and that I should
write about it in the same manner and style that I used when
presenting Conversations with Pagans, the seminar I started in St.
Louis, Missouri. I thought she was crazy, but after a prolonged
and serious illness, Chere and several other members of my coven
encouraged me to write the book as part of rehabilitation and
therapy; so, I did it.
The other half of this story has its genesis in my childhood: I
always wanted to be a writer. I was writing and directing plays
in grade school; wrote volumes of short stories and poetry throughout
grade school, middle school, and high school (I took typing in high
school because I decided that I could not be post-humously famous if
no one could read my handwriting–most practical thing I ever
did); had a regular column in the Junior High School paper; and wrote
for the Edwardsville High School literary journal PEN N' INKLINGS
in high school. My dream was to go to Cape Cod and become a
writer like Henry Beston or Thoreau. Somehow, I got sidetracked
and went to law school instead.
So, in the late 1990's when my maternal grandmother died and left the
family property in Chatham, MA to my mother and me, I decided to
abandon ship (that is, leave my legal practice) and make my dream a
reality. It was a big step for me and came on the heels of that
serious illness when the Goddess said to me: "Dana, do I have
your attention now? Sorry to put your butt in bed for
nearly six months, but that is the only way I could get you to pay attention."
It was time to re-think my life and my career options; so, I
listened to the Goddess, to my parents, and to my innermost
longings. I left St. Louis, left my law practice, and came to
Cape Cod in an attempt to realize my dream and to fulfill the
Goddess' plan for me.
On the notion of "what is the reality of being a writer,"
I really have to laugh. What? You mean it is NOT
like Barbara Cartland writing novels in bed in a pink, maribou
feather bed jacket? The reality is what a close painter/artist
friend of mine said: "I am glad that no one sees me while I am
creating, because the reality is, I look like &^$%
while I do it!" While writing this book, I was hunched
over the computer most of the time late at night with the heat turned
almost off so that I would stay awake, with my sweatshirt pulled over
my head and a cat sitting on the monitor, trying to wipe the computer
screen with her tail, and I had a dog on the small couch behind me,
and a dog behind my chair. There were stacks of paper, journals,
notes, floppy discs, and books everywhere. The process for
writing my second book is even worse!
TWPT:
Your book is entitled The Practical Pagan, tell me about some of the "impractical
pagans" that inspired the title of this book?
DE: You know, I was afraid
that someday, someone was going to ask me this question. Let me
just say that over the course of the last ten years, I have been
asked a lot of questions by a lot of folks. Here are some
examples of the questions I have been asked or situations I have
encountered when dealing with people, both newbies and established
Pagans: "Do I really have to share my spouse in order to be
Pagan?"; "I read that the Goddess commands us to be naked
while we perform ritual. Can I be a Witch if I want to keep my
clothes on?"; "Books? Do I really have to read
books?"; "Is it ok to be a Pagan if I only want to be a
solitary practitioner because I really don't want to practice with a
group of people"; "Oh, you mean I can't ignore a Child
Support Order even if I think that the judge was prejudiced against
me because I am a Pagan?"; "Oh, you mean I have to obey my
town's zoning ordinances with respect to my property even if I think
they are prejudiced against me because I am Pagan?"; "Oh!
You mean I don't have to perform a big, elaborate ritual to talk to
the Goddess?"; "I want to practice with this specific
group, but they use sex in their rituals. What should I
do?"; "I went ahead and practiced with this specific group,
and they used sex in their rituals, but they told me about it ahead
of time, and I did it anyway, and now I feel violated and don't know
what to do about it. By the way, I am over 21 years old;"
"There are people in the community who grab at my breasts and my
genitals and I don't know what to do about it."
I am sure that you get the idea.
TWPT:
The Practical Pagan arose out of your Conversations with Pagans
series, tell me about what you were looking to accomplish with these
series of "conversations" and how these talks inspired you
to write this book.
DE: In the late 1980's and
early 1990's in St. Louis, the Pagan community there was really
starting to blossom and get its stuff together. At an early Pagan
Picnic, I was astonished at the sheer number of people out there who
were Pagan, Pagan friendly, and Pagan curious. Historically
speaking, the St. Louis Pagans were not all that comfortable in
networking with one another. I had written an article about
Wicca for the local New Age paper, and the editor of the paper had a
local store. He suggested that I teach classes. I thought
he was nuts. I asked him: "Who in the world would
listen to me, anyway?" Then, he presented me with the
notes, cards, and phone messages he had received since the
publication of my article. I started getting phone calls at
work from people who needed answers to questions and who just wanted
to TALK to somebody. So, with some misgivings, I decided
to do a seminar at my friend's store. I did not want to stand
up in front of everybody and pontificate; I really wanted people to
come and get THEIR questions answered and discuss the issues
that were important to THEM. So, after discussing all of
this with my good friends and fellow authors Joyce and River
Higginbotham and with my first teacher, I decided to structure the
seminar like a Question and Answer period from The Highlander
conventions. I had a lot of experience in dealing with this
sort of thing, being a lawyer and all. From the very first CWP,
the format just WORKED. People liked it. They
participated, and suddenly, everyone was talking. It was very gratifying.
TWPT:
What kinds of involvement do you have with the community at large?
Circles, meetings, gatherings. Does this allow you to maintain a feel
for the ebbs and flows of the community?
DE: Well, I started off in
St. Louis where I was/am a founding member of The Omnistic
Fellowship, which is a Pagan church and of The Council for
Alternative Spiritual Traditions (CAST). I was one of the
people who helped to brainstorm these organizations into existence,
and in the early years of both organizations, I was very active.
CAST sponsored the Open Full Moon calendar in St. Louis where at
every full moon, a different group or individual would come forward
and present a spiritual observance for the community. The
covens that I worked with presented rituals at these on several
occasions. I helped to create these rituals and had major roles
in them. Additionally, I have served on the Ritual Committee
for both Magickal Weekend and the Pagan Picnic as an
organizer/Chaiperson. In this capacity, I was responsible for
putting together a committee to create ritual for these events and in
getting that ritual out there to the public. I helped to create
these rituals and had major roles in them. I have presented
seminars on various topics at events in Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis,
and in New England. I have performed public ritual here in
Massachusetts and have been part of working covens in the St. Louis
area and here in Chatham, Massachusetts. I was part of a small
group of people who created WildHaven, an autumnal equinox festival
which ran for three years in Duke, Missouri. I was the
ChairPerson for all three years.
Doing all the public work definitely affords me a bird's eye view
However, to be honest, all the public work is exhausting, and I have
paid a high price for it in terms of my health, my own private
spirituality, and my relationships with other people. While
ministering to the public or the community at large, one can
forget/neglect one's own needs. I know that I did. I
pushed myself and ignored my body when it said "Enough,"
and I have often found myself wishing that someone, somewhere would
create for me some of the rituals that I have created for other
people. Recently, though, I have been hugely fortunate in
finding covens with High Priests and High Priestesses who understood
this and who did me the great honor of allowing me to just be a
participant and not a facilitator. Thank you, Vince and
Natalia! I treasure these people and the opportunity to have
magic worked on my behalf.
In terms of my relationships with other people, it has been very hard
at times to work with close friends. Some of my most difficult
spats and tough spots with my Pagan brethren has come out of public
work: I see things one way, and they see things another. It is
hard to compromise and bargain. Fortunately, I have been able
to work out most of the trouble spots (I love you, Mark and Elbee),
and my friendships have continued.
TWPT:
Do you see a cohesive community forming for paganism and where do
you see this trend eventually leading to? What do you see as some of
the trouble spots that are keeping things from coalescing more rapidly?
DE: What is that old
saying? Organizing Pagans is like herding cats?
I think the easiest thing to address first are the roadblocks to the
creation of community.
Most Pagans embrace Paganism because they are fiercely independent
and because they do NOT want other people telling them what to do,
how to behave, how to practice, and what to believe. A lot of
people have come to Paganism because they have had it UP TO HERE
with other people raining dogma and instructions down on them from up
above. They don't like the idea of anyone, no matter who it is,
being designated a leader. People have said to me: "You
are a leader, Dana? Says who? I did not
make you my leader." This serious aversion to anything
remotely resembling organization is, perhaps, the single greatest
roadblock to the creation of Pagan community, whether it be on a
local, national, or global scale.
The second greatest roadblock that I see to the creation of community
is the failure of people to take responsibility for what they do, or
don't do, which I find somewhat interesting given how highly touted
the notion of "Pagans take responsibility for themselves and
their actions" is among Pagans. They walk around
saying things like that and then when they fall down flat on a job,
they take no responsibility at all for it. Folks volunteer to
do a job, and then they either bug out or do the job badly.
When asked for some accountability, people are quick to say: "Stop
blaming me! You are creating a Witch war."
Phooey! In any organization, there must be a certain level of
expectation that is either met, or it is not. People working
with good intentions will be able to take constructive criticism and
do a better job next time. Folks cannot afford to be lazy, to
slough off, and to just figure that because we are all Pagans, the
rest of us are going to accept poorly done jobs. I may be
Pagan, but I expect that someone who takes on a job is going to do
that job to the best of their ability, ask for help if they need it,
and if they can't do the job for whatever reason, they are going to
let someone know so that another person can be found to do the job
before it is too late.
Given these two serious issues, can we hope to create a Pagan
community? On the local level, there were folks in St. Louis
who denied the existence of a Pagan community even though there were
well attended events occurring weekly, a local council of
organizers/movers and shakers who were coming up with ideas for
community events, etc. If I were to take the events occurring
in St. Louis and view them as a microcosm for what is happening in
the wider universe, I would have to say that despite the nay sayers,
the recalcitrant and reluctant, and the just plain ornery independent
ol' cusses, there is a growing population of people who want
recognition, a place in their broader communities, and equality.
These folks realize that one of the ways you GET these things is by
existing in a community that is able to function, perform public
works, and behave with dignity. Thus, these people are coming
together and are forming communities.
On the national level, I feel that there already exists a definite
sense of community among a certain body of folk who have been working
their wands off for several years now. It is hard to describe
who these people are, but they are authors, web gurus, media wizards,
artists, military people, visionaries, activists, creators, teachers,
crones and sages from every Pagan spiritual tradition that you can
think of who have stuck their necks out. Some day, I think, the
sense of community being created nationally will filter down to the
local levels, and people will understand that being a community does
not mean surrendering your belief structure or how you do things.
TWPT:
From what you have seen in the types of civil rights problems that
have been coming your way, are we making any headway into being
accepted by the society at large or is it overly optimistic to think
that society will ever accept belief systems that differ from the
majority view?
DE: We are definitely
making progress. The Supreme Court recognized Santeria as a
religion deserving of First Amendment protection, and the state
Supreme Court of Georgia has similarly recognized Wicca. The
IRS grants our churches tax exempt status, and more of our children
are able to wear the symbols of their faith to school every day.
Yes, there are still problems out there, but as more and more Pagans
stand up for themselves, these problems will diminish. It will,
however, be many years before we have complete acceptance.
After all, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant America is highly resistant
to change, especially to changes that they think will somehow
disintegrate the fabric of their reality. However, we have gone
from Elvis to Snoop Doggy Dog, and the stock market still opens every
day. The Beatles brought over the Maharishi, and now, Dr.
Deepak Chopra is big business. It just takes time, vigilance,
and persistence. People of color still fight the good fight,
and we will be fighting the good fight for a long while yet to come. |
